"The pagan slander of the early Christians... accusations of infanticidal blood rites...in all the main areas where Christians were to be found—north Africa, Asia Minor, Rome itself"
You're telling me there's a largely secular, highly educated, mostly professional-class, disproportionately wealthy (in the way doctors and lawyers tend to be), ethno-religious group with historical ties to the land of Israel, deep internal religious divisons, a history of global emigration and thus a worldwide presence, fantasies of national reunification, that has also been suspected of having dual loyalties?
Yeah, and on top of it, they have penchant for turning up in the West and spreading insane, but bizarrely popular ideas that demonise white people, like Edward Said.
Nice article, and I support the notion of giving you and not UBERSOY money, but "Arab Christian" is too general. Better to break things down by (admittedly confusing) sects. For example, Greek Orthodox Christians tend towards Arab nationalism and anti-Zionism. But Maronite Christians embrace a separate Phoenician identity and are historically more sympathetic to Israel.
I know you previously said the key to nonzionism is recognizing that Druze and Palestinians are basically the same, but I think the key is recognizing that this whole conflict is a joke and a farce with all the parties involved being different degrees of nuts. These articles make me laugh every time; like how the hell did the Arabs reject that partition??
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your meltdown and damage control article after mine was published.
Let me address some of the accusations you have just leveled against me:
"The volume of lies, obvious misinterpretations of evidence, non sequiturs, copy-paste from AI, graphs with no link to a source, and genuinely ridiculous arguments are such that it puts you in a bind."
If you wanna make these broad accusations, consider first backing them with evidence. The unsourced graph from IRAN (not Israel) comes from GAMAAN. I definitely should have sourced it, but again, you're missing the point if you wanna focus on that as opposed to my claim that Christians are being systemically discriminated against by the Israeli Jews (which comes with sources).
"genuinely ridiculous arguments"? like what?
With regards to the usage of AI, I have only used it to create a table with rising and falling Christian populations in the Middle East and a few minor paraphrasings throughout the article. I didn't use it for sources nor writing which explains why there are some grammar mistakes and the emojis I added myself because they look interactive.
Finally, comments are for paid users only, and they are turned off on every other post of mine too. They are not turned off because I’m afraid of a “deboonk,” which is clearly very difficult to do - since you haven’t even attempted it yourself.
I have read your article and how you choose to construct it around the pro-Arab nationalist and anti-Zionist bias of many Arab Christians and was totally unsurprised by the fact that you haven't touched the issue of discrimination of Christians in Israel.
"Overall, I think you can make a good case that Christian Arabs are doing not so bad in Israel."
Doing economically well-off doesn't mean that they aren't being oppressed. I can make the same arguments about Jews in the West during periods of antisemitism.
"Christian Arabs in Israel just really believe in Arab nationalism. I think that’s a pretty dumb thing to believe, and sometimes it’s just plain cringe" < powerful writing btw. But, Arab Christians aren't the only Christians to be discriminated against in Israel as I clearly show in my article.
You are basically trying to blame the conflict between Christians and Jews in Israel on Christian theology (but no Jewish theology strangely enough) and a bet on Arab nationalism while completely ignoring the ongoing discriminatory practices of the Jewish state against them and the beliefs of Jews about Christians. In other words you are blaming Christians for their own oppression.
If you really want to do some actual scholarly work on the plight of Christians in the Middle East and Israel in particular, consider taking an example from me, which is utilizing sourced statistics and other forms of quantitative data.
> "You are basically trying to blame the conflict between Christians and Jews in Israel on Christian theology"
He's mainly pointing out there is a remarkable structural similarity between the power-games high-achieving jewish minorities have played in western countries and the power-games high-achieving christian minorities have played in the muslim world. Sure, there's an element of "blaming the victim" here, but I thought it was interesting.
I haven't read the entirety of your article yet, but I'm not really wedded to the notion to that political states need to treat all peoples equally and I think oppression needs to be gauged relative to likely alternatives. I don't think he's pretending that jewish scholars haven't been disparaging toward Christians.
I wouldn't say I am blaming the victim, because there is no victim. Arab Christians in Israel are excluded to a certain degree from full participation in Israeli civil society by virtue of not being Jewish (I don't think they're missing out all that much, but not everyone is autistic). Beyond that, they choose to exclude themselves further because of their commitment to Arab nationalism, something that predates the state of Israel. That's their choice. It's not the one I would make in their shoes, but it is the one most people would make.
In general, while the situation in the occupied territories and Gaza is very deplorable, and has been getting worse recently, I think Israel itself really does provide a good model of how you can have a strong nationalist state identity, but also do fairly by minorities, even under exceptionally trying circumstances. I'm not a nationalist, but if I was, I would think Israel offers a lot of positive lessons. It frustrates me when mendacious imbeciles try to cook up phoney problems, as if Israel doesn't have enough real ones.
I'm not describing Christian Israelis as being especially victimised here, but there's certainly been victimisation of Christians in the wider middle-east, which I don't think your article is denying.
Marital endogamy is quite hard in Israel because there is no civil marriage. I don't know how it works maritally between different Christian groups, honestly. I guess Anglicans are probably willing to do intra-Christian mixed marriages.
There is a lot of sectarian stuff between Christian groups in Jerusalem itself, especially at the church of sepulcher, but Palestinian Christians as a whole aren't religious enough for that.
"So you are saying that more than 109 states in history persecuted Christians? Well well well, what's the lowest common denominator?"
https://mischrev.substack.com/i/147344180/chimerical-slanders:
"The pagan slander of the early Christians... accusations of infanticidal blood rites...in all the main areas where Christians were to be found—north Africa, Asia Minor, Rome itself"
You're telling me there's a largely secular, highly educated, mostly professional-class, disproportionately wealthy (in the way doctors and lawyers tend to be), ethno-religious group with historical ties to the land of Israel, deep internal religious divisons, a history of global emigration and thus a worldwide presence, fantasies of national reunification, that has also been suspected of having dual loyalties?
Yeah, and on top of it, they have penchant for turning up in the West and spreading insane, but bizarrely popular ideas that demonise white people, like Edward Said.
And a history of being the victims of massacres and genocides!
It's Yarvin's International Protestant Conspiracy!
And yes, Arab Christians are also heavily overrepresented in communist movements. Can't forget that one.
Nice article, and I support the notion of giving you and not UBERSOY money, but "Arab Christian" is too general. Better to break things down by (admittedly confusing) sects. For example, Greek Orthodox Christians tend towards Arab nationalism and anti-Zionism. But Maronite Christians embrace a separate Phoenician identity and are historically more sympathetic to Israel.
Yes, Maronite Christians are the big exception. I guess, I'll stick in a footnote.
I know you previously said the key to nonzionism is recognizing that Druze and Palestinians are basically the same, but I think the key is recognizing that this whole conflict is a joke and a farce with all the parties involved being different degrees of nuts. These articles make me laugh every time; like how the hell did the Arabs reject that partition??
If i had the money i would’ve immediately subscribed the moment i read the end of that first paragraph. I’m sold
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your meltdown and damage control article after mine was published.
Let me address some of the accusations you have just leveled against me:
"The volume of lies, obvious misinterpretations of evidence, non sequiturs, copy-paste from AI, graphs with no link to a source, and genuinely ridiculous arguments are such that it puts you in a bind."
If you wanna make these broad accusations, consider first backing them with evidence. The unsourced graph from IRAN (not Israel) comes from GAMAAN. I definitely should have sourced it, but again, you're missing the point if you wanna focus on that as opposed to my claim that Christians are being systemically discriminated against by the Israeli Jews (which comes with sources).
"genuinely ridiculous arguments"? like what?
With regards to the usage of AI, I have only used it to create a table with rising and falling Christian populations in the Middle East and a few minor paraphrasings throughout the article. I didn't use it for sources nor writing which explains why there are some grammar mistakes and the emojis I added myself because they look interactive.
Finally, comments are for paid users only, and they are turned off on every other post of mine too. They are not turned off because I’m afraid of a “deboonk,” which is clearly very difficult to do - since you haven’t even attempted it yourself.
I have read your article and how you choose to construct it around the pro-Arab nationalist and anti-Zionist bias of many Arab Christians and was totally unsurprised by the fact that you haven't touched the issue of discrimination of Christians in Israel.
"Overall, I think you can make a good case that Christian Arabs are doing not so bad in Israel."
Doing economically well-off doesn't mean that they aren't being oppressed. I can make the same arguments about Jews in the West during periods of antisemitism.
"Christian Arabs in Israel just really believe in Arab nationalism. I think that’s a pretty dumb thing to believe, and sometimes it’s just plain cringe" < powerful writing btw. But, Arab Christians aren't the only Christians to be discriminated against in Israel as I clearly show in my article.
You are basically trying to blame the conflict between Christians and Jews in Israel on Christian theology (but no Jewish theology strangely enough) and a bet on Arab nationalism while completely ignoring the ongoing discriminatory practices of the Jewish state against them and the beliefs of Jews about Christians. In other words you are blaming Christians for their own oppression.
If you really want to do some actual scholarly work on the plight of Christians in the Middle East and Israel in particular, consider taking an example from me, which is utilizing sourced statistics and other forms of quantitative data.
Better luck next time :)
> "You are basically trying to blame the conflict between Christians and Jews in Israel on Christian theology"
He's mainly pointing out there is a remarkable structural similarity between the power-games high-achieving jewish minorities have played in western countries and the power-games high-achieving christian minorities have played in the muslim world. Sure, there's an element of "blaming the victim" here, but I thought it was interesting.
I haven't read the entirety of your article yet, but I'm not really wedded to the notion to that political states need to treat all peoples equally and I think oppression needs to be gauged relative to likely alternatives. I don't think he's pretending that jewish scholars haven't been disparaging toward Christians.
I wouldn't say I am blaming the victim, because there is no victim. Arab Christians in Israel are excluded to a certain degree from full participation in Israeli civil society by virtue of not being Jewish (I don't think they're missing out all that much, but not everyone is autistic). Beyond that, they choose to exclude themselves further because of their commitment to Arab nationalism, something that predates the state of Israel. That's their choice. It's not the one I would make in their shoes, but it is the one most people would make.
In general, while the situation in the occupied territories and Gaza is very deplorable, and has been getting worse recently, I think Israel itself really does provide a good model of how you can have a strong nationalist state identity, but also do fairly by minorities, even under exceptionally trying circumstances. I'm not a nationalist, but if I was, I would think Israel offers a lot of positive lessons. It frustrates me when mendacious imbeciles try to cook up phoney problems, as if Israel doesn't have enough real ones.
I'm not describing Christian Israelis as being especially victimised here, but there's certainly been victimisation of Christians in the wider middle-east, which I don't think your article is denying.
Minor correction. Bukele's family are actually Muslim. Which for a long time separated them from other elites in El Salvador.
It's actually a bit stranger than that. His grandparents were Christian, but his father converted to Islam in South America and became an Imam.
Life is just one Jew to pay after another
What is the marital endogamy rate of Christian Israelis? Is there any intra-Christian sectarianism?
I live in a country with different Christian denominations and the social boundaries are increasingly hazy this century.
Marital endogamy is quite hard in Israel because there is no civil marriage. I don't know how it works maritally between different Christian groups, honestly. I guess Anglicans are probably willing to do intra-Christian mixed marriages.
There is a lot of sectarian stuff between Christian groups in Jerusalem itself, especially at the church of sepulcher, but Palestinian Christians as a whole aren't religious enough for that.