Agreed that losing our exilic identities suck, but it’s happening and there’s nothing we can do to stop it whether we like it or not. I imagine best case scenario of Israeli cultural development and identity to be a mix of all these diaspora cultures, a global identity if you will, sort of like how places like NYC are, where the collective culture is unified by the best of Jewish, Black, Latina, Italian, Polish, Irish, Indian, Arab cultures, cuisines, humor, vibes etc.
That being said, I don’t feel that what’s unfolding in Israel today is best case scenario at all, it’s not even average case scenario. I genuinely feel that a lot of parts of this country are going through decivilization. Increasing youth violence, horrible education and literacy rates, haredi insanity, number of arsim growing more in every generation, no public decorum or awareness whatsoever, lack of intellectual movements. I wish the government would put more money and resources into cultural development in the country beyond “we’re a thousands of years old people and our enemies never defeat us, blah blah.” We’re still such a young country and have so much potential, most of it being completely wasted.
I find myself not so much disagreeing with you but thinking you may be underestimating how bad things are in diaspora. If you are 35 and you walk into a Conservative synagogue, people light up like you are a celebrity. It's really sad. I have less exposure to this, but the more decorous orthodox synagogues feel the same way. There are very few younger people and the ones there are often come off as weird seekers (looks in mirror) or are clearly neurologically abnormal. ‘Religion fit for literate people’ just does not seem self-sustaining in diaspora. Why is a long story, religious faith runs against the general current of the society, but it is what it is. Your point about Aliyah pulling away the most sincere orthodox is interesting but ultimately it looks to me like the only forms of Judaism that will survive in diaspora will function by rigid dogmatism and isolation.
I also think that some of your complaints about Judaism in Israel, more in previous articles than this one, reflect a dynamic where in diaspora, dumber and less conscientious Jews simply drift away from the community whereas in Israel, they get found by Chabad or Breslovers or some such. The same way you have gangsters in the US with big gold crosses, you have arsim in Israel with oversized kippot. Part of being the majority religion is that the trash are also part of your religion, but it's better than the average age of your minyan being eighty.
There seems to be a link between the early state Labour Zionists’ belief that everyone would into turn into moshavniks and Israeli vulgarity. They really could not appreciate how unique the pre state Yishuv society was. They had a high trust, high civic engagement, high human capital society and also relatively high in individualism (Labour Zionism emphasized Aliyah as an individual moral choice). Labour Zionists also promoted a simple aesthetic style and high informality in society for their own ideological reasons. Now high informality works in high trust, high human capital cultures as seen in Scandinavia or even Old Yankee New England (The Swedes manage to combine this with dressing well!!!). It also worked, for the most part, in a secular ideologically committed Ashkenazi Yishuv. High informality does not however, work with most of the rest of humanity, and when you both intentionally and unintentionally transfer these norms to low trust, low contentiousness peoples you get well…
And after all that, when everyone stopped believing in labour Zionism and its ideals, all we were left with was Philistinism. The aesthetics and culture Religious Zionism is one of the more horrifying products of this process.
I'll start by accepting that although you state no actual figures and continuously engage in the no good Scotsman fallacy, your are in important ways right: particularly in the increased propensity to racial generalisations, incivility and sectarianism of the more left wing orthodox (modox) groupings as they move to Israel.
By way of illustration: you should look in the mirror. All your based race discourse is uncivil ranting by ModOrth standards.
I continue by providing some important counter examples seeking to prove that in important ways Charedim are Charedi wherever they live
Charedi violence: Read between the lines here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/421867.stm - dude had 7 different flavours of snot beaten out of him for entertainment by Gateshead boys before he came back with his air pistol. A practice that was repeated with increasing frequency throughout a winter zeman. See also: Zalmis v Ahronis, Skver, 770 battles.
Around half of the English born Satmar boys in Gateshead literally can neither read nor write in English. Not functionally illiterate: illiterate illiterate. The Rosh HaYeshiva, Rabbi A Gurwitz, who received a fine secular education at Newcastle Grammar, opposed any changes to that status quo and said Jews should leave the UK if the children and schools bill passed. It did; he didn't.
Diasporic sex criminals: Lev Tahor is a diaspora sexual, spiritual, and physical abuse cult apart from the deceased franchise founder who was Israeli.
Todros Grynhaus was convicted for only a small fraction of his crimes. He began violating younger schoolboys in Stamford Hill, while a teen himself, then a roommate in Gateshead yeshiva which brought him to R' Mattisyahu Salomon's attention, then after marriage, a horrifying stint working in a Gibraltar boys' kindergarten, and finally in Manchester against boys and girls. He was and is being supported by the richest man in Broughton Park, even if that man claims to be tax domiciled in Israel. I cannot comment in detail on Chaim Halpern due to the UK's oppressive sub judice rules. I disagree strongly with your "meh" characterisation of both the quantum and quality of allegations against him. Malka Leifer.
The Israeli Charedi community has about the same rate of Todros Grynhaus type cases I believe. Two names that stick in the mind are Elior Chen and Yisrael Draiman. I did not identify this as a difference between Israeli and diaspora Charedim.
I like chassidim, illiteracy notwithstanding, but, in any case, I don't think that the mainstream groups are all that different here and abroad.
Lev Tahor is a clear example of Israeli religion being spread abroad. I even thought of including it in the article.
To complete my brief biography of the life and works of Todros Grynhaus, I missed out his two teaching jobs at Manchester Mesivta (fka MJGS), where I found him cold, astute and capable, with an odd habit of pacing around with his hands down his trousers, and then Eitz Chaim; and the Sheves Achim after school activity centre and summer camp he founded and procured victims in. After his abuse came to the attention of the Gateshead Rav, Rabbi Zimmerman, he was moved on from work in education, and founded a successful payment aggregator business. Rabbi Zimmerman faced significant pushback for this (inadequate) response from the right wing of his Gateshead litvak community in relation to this and another case of alleged sexual abuse. This appears to have been a material factor in his decision to find alternative employment as head of the London Federation beis din. After arrest Grynhaus fled to Israel, where he was was recognised and held at gunpoint on a bus by a serving chayal, one of his former pupils, then to Africa. He was eventually returned to England. His first trial collapsed as the jury could not reach a verdict. He was convicted in a second trial.
It is true that he did not lead a charismatic sexual abuse cult. Throughout his life he was enabled by his father, a dayan of the UOHC beis din, by various other Charedi authority figures who thought they were managing him when he was managing them, and by the Jewish religious institutions he attended and worked in. When asked to explain his behaviour he told Rabbi Zimmerman and Rabbi Gershon Miller (briefly of MJGS, then of Gateshead, now of Lakewood) that he was possessed by demons. He has continuously professed Charedi Judaism. To my mind, he resembles Church of England abuser John Smyth in his sick sadism, wily abuse of institutions, and general competence.
The wilful blindness of some of those Rabbis to the preventable abuse of what could be over 100 victims in the name of "mesira" is shameful.
There is nothing specifically Israeli or indeed Jewish I can identify about Lev Tahor Helbrans fled Israel for the same reason he later fled Canada: child protective services were closing in. The abuse of the cult members are to my mind substantially analogous to those of the Branch Davidians, the Unification Church / Moonies, Scientology, NXIVM, the Children of God, the early Mormon church, and other charismatic cults.
I guess my point is this: a grand unified theory of human failure based on a critique of zionism, zoharism, is an obvious exercise in futility. That's not to say there aren't critiques to be made, but they miss the point. People -men- are like this mainly because of what is between their legs, and not because of what is between their ears.
I agree that the story of Grynhaus tells us that (a) evil has a randomness to it (parenthetically, his parents, though obviously lacking moral fibre, were/are [I'm not up to date] sweet and kind people and that (b) Charedim totally suck at child protection (though things have improved).
I don't think Israel provides a general explanation for Jewish failure. It's just it doesn't offer any of the benefits Zionists promised, and has made many problems worse.
I'm going to remove that section of the article, because while I think it is actually true, it could be construed (perhaps justly) as being mezalzel the seriousness of 'ordinary' sexual abuse.
I did note that Austrian and Belgian chassidim on average speak and write better English than English chassidim. It's not clear to me that US chassidim are better educated. Yaffed seemed to me to make excellent points about deficits boys' education before they quit.
Blaming this fear of secular knowledge on the state of Israel is in my opinion without foundation.
An analogous debate about studying the Greek language can be found in the Mishanic era (see Sotah 49a).. The yeshiva in Volozhin specifically closed in part because of rabbinical opposition to secular learning, a long standing position. It seems to me that this debate arises cyclically throughout Jewish history during periods of relative peace,
Yes: they don't have their nose in the central government trough with the shameless veniality of a Moshe Gafni. That's a function of much smaller numbers, and first past the post electoral systems, not of any chul pragmaticism.
However: Shaarei Torah in Manchester and Sunderland and Yeshiva kettanah of Gateshead are full of hundreds of 15 or even 14 year old charedi Litvak boys who leave their charedi not litvak school with minimal or no formal qualification. They will go on to more advanced yeshivas then get married, then start a family, and then worry about earning a living, which is often accomplished (for those without familial wealth) through the benefits system.
I mentioned that the hardcore Gateshead Litvaks hold liberal views on alleged child sexual abuse, and it was a factor in Rabbi Zimmerman's departure from his role as Gateshead Rav.
In my view Rabbi A Kotler was as radical as Rav Shach, a radicalism once can trace back not just to the radicalism of Rabbi Karlitz but also to Rabbi Wasserman. Lakewood is full of fruitcakes. A Gateshead resident felt the need to remonstrate with me for reciting kiddush levana with no hat on. Another was genuinely disgusted to hear I was a blood donor (Goyim should have your blood for free?)
I like how you started off with a moving and profound reflection on the need for mutual sympathy and understanding among religious groups in Israel to be an agudah achas and then proceed to trash every single religious group apparently just for the sake of it to an audience of mostly non-Jews. Hillul Hashem 101
(a) My audience is mostly Jews. (b) Non-Jews these days are seeing a lot worse than I'm putting out. I'm the only one trying to not throw the whole of Judaism in the bin along with the unfolding disaster zone of Israel.
What do you think is the solution for religious culture in Israel? Because, while it's true that there's a lot of derangement in certain sectors having visited EY a number of time I can sense that there's a general enthusiasm for Judaism among ordinary Israelis that is simply not present in the diaspora (even in the Orthodox communities). I guess what I'm asking is that it seems like for the first time since the destruction of the kehilos in Europe you have a new religious culture that has emerged organically and it seems unwise to just write it all off as sickness even if you think it's problematic how it is expressed in practice.
1) As I say in the article, we need to support existing communities that maintain a strong exilic identity to resist the cancer of Chabad, Breslev etc.
2) The reason you don't find enthusiasm among MO in America is that the enthusiastic ones go to Israel. This needs to be fixed if you want to fix MO, since there is no MO in Israel.
3) Ultimately, I agree that the only way is through. There are various answers to the problem, and I am involved in one of them helping with preparation of materials, though they would probably prefer I don't publicise this. The most plausible I have seen so far is https://www.youtube.com/@shivreluhot.
However, none of them are at the mass-marketing stage.
Well, he didn't trash Reform and Conservative Jews, who greatly outnumber Orthodox Jews, at least in America. Of course, maybe he doesn't consider us Real Jews. But the Jewish religion in Israel might benefit from larger Reform and Conservative-Masorti communities.
Conservative-Masorti messed up and positioned itself as a movement for slightly more committed Reform. It's not going anywhere. Not even worth discussing.
1) most of these people, had they lived in Chutzpah Laaretz, would be either assimilated or dead. Not much of an improvement.
2) this screed reads like a typical anti-semitic screed of bad rabbis, but with a veneer that it's not "all Jews".
I've been to Uman many many times. If you think 99% of these people are ok with child sex or even plain rape you are a demented hateful sicko. The people you cited are anomalies who no one ever heard of. (The sole exception being Berland, who besides for being a world class perv was also a noted Ashkenazi genius.) Berland is a sign against Breslov as much as he is against Judaism as a whole.
The same with all the Zohar stuff. Benyomen already pointed out all the crazy stuff in the talmud. Let's face it, those who are pervs will twist anything, and vice versa. There's not a significant difference.
I agree that extremism is bad and it seems likely that being Israeli exacerbates extremism (just compare your blogs to outside of Israel blogs with the level of hatred toward fellow Jews). But I don't think that Chabad, Breslov, Zohar or Litvaks are significantly worse than the rest of your list.
The main point is and should be don't follow a cult.
What's your argument!? It's heresy? Fine. So is Catholicism. But I don't go around pretending that priestly child rape is an inherent result of Catholic ideology. I know a bunch of great catholics IRL.
The theology of Breslev is that connection to God comes through connection to tzaddikim who are identifiable by their emotional instability. It's designed to be abused (Nacham himself only abused it for his own ego as a cult leader, not baser pleasures).
Obviously, mandatory celibacy for priests is an important cause of child abuse scandals in the church.
I've seen it pretty strongly argued that child sexual abuse by priests is far less statistically common than child sexual abuse in the public education system. I suppose those numbers might shift if kids today attended church as frequently as they attend school, but I'd have to see the math on that.
About 1, hard to know. In some cases, yes. But in other cases, they may have been killed or injured serving in the army or in terrorism, and would have been alive without Zionism, in Arab countries, with dhimmi status, or would have been living in America safely. With Russian Jews, America was actually willing to take in large numbers of jews - and many of them preferred to go there - but Yitzchak Shamir put pressure on America not to accept them! (This is not a conspiracy. it's documented!), which is really sick stuff, regardless of what one thinks of Zionism. Anyway, I think it is very hard to know - but if we had to guess, probarly more Jews would be alive without Zionism - that's my feeling.
But you're right that most likely, it saved the Jewish people from a lot of assimilation and intermarriage. But even there, on the flip side, it caused many Sephardi Jews to become irreligious - albeit not assimilated. Sorry for the long rant.
"most of these people, had they lived in Chutzpah Laaretz, would be either assimilated or dead. Not much of an improvement."
This is the best counter-argument, so you win the prize for being the first person not to just splutter. First, however, it's rather melodramatic. If you took most Litvish in Israel and put them in America, they wouldn't die (??) or assimilate, they would just become American Charedim, i.e. better.
Secondly, even to the extent it's true, so what? By 2050 there are going to be 5 million Charedim in America. Judaism doesn't have a numbers problem, it has a rapidly escalating human capital problem. Israel is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
It's entirely possible that 2050 America is going to be alternating between the ideological heirs of Tucker Carlson and Zohran Mamdani, in which case I wouldn't count on the 5 million Haredi being guests for too long.
To be fair, I don't have a high opinion of Roma or Somalis establishing colonies in western societies where they reproduce at 3x the normal rate and would gradually take over the electorate given enough time, so... frankly it's not clear why I should tolerate similar behaviour by the Haredi. Even if welfare dependency and criminal offending are less of an issue, the long-term setup there is not sustainable.
The litvish wouldn't die. I was referring to the sefardi arsim who'd be dead had they stayed in their host countries.
Arsim wearing tzitzis are infinitely better than arsim who don't. I know many many people who used Breslov heresy of not giving up to pull themselves out of criminality and create a functional healthy life even if they do sneak into uman during COVID.
They happen to be about a 1/4 of the total, but in the case of all the others, they definitely would have been better off in most cases if the state of israel never existed. The only really clear cut counter-example is Yemen.
It's not clear that it made such a difference, but certainly Rabi Akiva made a grave mistake by endorsing Bar Kokhba, a depraved megalomaniac who got hundreds of thousands of Jews killed.
I accept the traditional Rabbinic view which denounces his political views while revering his Torah scholarship. I can't revere the Torah scholarship of a Breslevor because it's all nonsense and idiocy.
I actually don't mind his critiques on Judaism or of the Zoharic texts. I think they are very valuable. It's when he tries to illustrate badness from a few bad people is where I draw the line.
It is. At least among second generation and beyond. A very large percentage of the crazies are renegades from other groups, or chilonim who found rabbeinu while on the run from the police. Not unlike the way a lot of the really exotic people in the old city are olim.
Meh you have to be more judgemental. You just notice he spouts garbage when it comes to something you are more familiar with. I'm happy to make a generalization that his incorrect worldview contaminates everything he writes about. He is very funny in a sardonic way but also a bit mental.
Well, the most famous Brelsov personality, Shlomo Arush, said multiple times that Berland is innocent, a complete tzaddik, and anyone who doesn't trust him is retarded.
I am quite well-exposed to a certain kind of Israeli academic (usually but not always a mathematician) abroad. They’re usually quite leftist Meretznikim/Hadashnikim or somewhere in between, v smart, interesting, often good-looking. But they aren’t noticeably diasporic. At this point you will probably say ‘oh they’re white’ but even if I take up your preferred sort of racism this just means they’re white in an Israeli kind of way. This obviously isn’t much of a defence of the State because, well, they'd have been sophisticated assimilated Jews speaking German or French or whatever in the counterfactual. However, they don’t seem much worse off for being in Israel.
Well, two exceptions. 1. Maybe if they'd stayed in Vienna they'd speak seven languages instead of Hebrew, English and a smattering of nearly-fluent Arabic or Russian. But people in Vienna don’t tend to speak seven languages these days either. 2. Psychologically obviously it’s not healthy for them to lose their country to Kahanists. Also we do not yet have any literary output from this tragedy à sa hauteur.
Thinking back to my undergrad I didn’t encounter many of them either, but I might’ve expected you to have bumped into them a bit later on? (Though maybe things were better when you were about. Kind of weird how many smart Hilonim there are around these days in pseudoëxile.)
You basically wrote an article trashing in turn the entire establishment. You are wrong for among others the following reasons; a) You make overly broad generalizations b) You oversimplify nuanced issues c) you don't accept the possibility of any valid explanations for the evidence in front of you except the one that appeals to you personally, which unfortunately is to hate entire groups. That being said you present good evidence of various kinds.
You assert chareidim "don't mind resembling ... a third world country", which is of course stupid. For example I lived in Beis Yisroel for a bit, one of the "worst" neighbourhoods and they really need to bury the bins but pretty clean. I've never noticed tons of rubbish in bnei brak either even though it's denser. You point to the hafganos, those have existed like that since the state was founded. It's Litvaks integrating into chalmer culture, not chiloni. The fact the chareidim followed stupid covid guidlines is because Israel temporarily metamorphosed into an intolerant police state back then. Your pointing to a handful of American Roshei Yeshivos as a sign of the failed system fails, ironically on its own terms. As you pointed out these roshei yeshivos are older then the state. The conditions of their education has little bearing on the state of Litvishe society today. The Mirrer Rosh Yeshiva you brought as an example is completely Israeli. Reb Sholom Ber Sorotzkin is the son of an American, he himself is the most stereotypical Israeli possible. You never backed up your blithe assertion that Israeli Rabbanim, Maggidei Shiur and Mashgichim cannot say consecutive sentences.
On Lubavitch I also have my misgivings about their beliefs of their rebbe being moshiach. Fortunately the entire Litvishe establshment, rank and file agree with me. Unlike what you claim, they are largely ignored.
On Berland, the Eidah Chareidis warned people to stay away from him. That's probably as far as they are able to go without bringing down on their own heads the full wrath of his followers. There are a gigantic amount of normal Breslovers who you ignore because it's inconvenient.
On zoharism you are just plain wrong that it cannot be escaped in a mainstream Litvishe setting.
Ger also has serious institutional issues but It's not fair to dismiss a community of 12,000 families most of whom are basically normal.
Vizhnitz Merkaz wasn't discussed but it has all the problems of Ger it's much smaller and not super relevant, but deserves a mention.
The main point is not that your article has serious factual issues, but your primary conclusion is wrong. You say Israeli society sucks. Yeah, if you hyperfocus on a narrow set of data you can kind of argue for that if you squint. One major issue is that once you do that, there's not much left of religious judasim, as other people have pointed out you can apply this same critical analysis to pretty much everything. It's just you who have decided to stop here.
So let me say it. Israel society does NOT suck. We have a religious vibrancy that is unparalleled anywhere else for the world, it is the major centre of Yiddishkeit. It is full of people who fear God and understand that following Him is more important then material benefits. You are surrounded by fellow Yidden and rarely interact with goyim, yes this may lead to more petty tribalism, but we pick up less of the sicknesses that has infected Western culture. It's wonderful, this lifestyle would have been literally inconceivable a century ago. Israeli Chareidism is responsible for the survival not just of Israel, but the whole Klal Yisroel.
'you don't accept the possibility of any valid explanations for the evidence in front of you except the one that appeals to you personally, which unfortunately is to hate entire groups.'
The only explanation that appeals to him personally is to hate entire groups? What?
I was frankly quite disappointed not to find any explanations here, only observations of things being bad. Okay, but the title of the article says 'The Effect of the State of Israel'. So, how did we get from the one to the other?
I found this article in equal parts hilarious and horrifying. You left nobody untouched by your unrestrained cynicism. Need I say you care way too much about other people and are overly pessimistic and also wrong?
Can I look forward, with morbid anticipation to a part 2 where you devastate all the people you didn't get to in this post? also out of interest which school in England did you attend, (sorry, miss your education as you would say)?
This is all so stupid and whiny. I like some of your historical writing but when it comes to the modern state it becomes clear that you’re not someone who’s really suited to Aliya. Just move back to England. You hate secular Jews, you hate Israelis, and you hate religious Jews in Israel. You don’t have to live here. Lots of people think the architecture here isn’t that great but there’s things they like about the place. It doesn’t seem like you like anything here. Yalla, so leave—-there’s no shame in that. You don’t have to live somewhere you don’t like.
If I'm talking about the lack of milk in the shops, or poor customer service, or the low standards of chazzanus etc. then fine, but I can't escape the implosion of Judaism as a religion. Even if I moved, I would have to devote myself to resisting Israelization.
Aside from Gershom Scholem the millions of Israelis who are not Orthodox Jews and are the single largest group in the state seem basically invisible to you; but they have rich internal lives that are fully independent of whatever effects the ingathering and has had on Orthodox Judaism. It’s really quite unfair to judge this state and Zionism solely on the effect it is had on your subculture. Yes, subculture. To you it is divine, to me it is a subculture. I see you agreeing with someone below that Zionism has had a net negative effect on Jewish lives. This is a truly asinine position. And I’m not some raging right winger.
Interesting stuff. My family is Jewish, all of them fled Germany for Israel and later returned when I was born and I am currently the only one without Israeli citizenship. My family have been secular, or atheistic for at least 100 years so my only interaction with the Synagogue was when my grand mother died and when I was studying Philosophy in University.
I don't know what you'd call "religious zionists" but I can say the modox here in the USA are not Zionist religious people. The Zionism absolutely comes first and foremost and is the primary religion. If they had to choose between celebrating Chanukah and celebrating Yom Ha'atzmaut, I have no doubt which would win. The suckiest part of being in a modox community is making friends only to have them move across the Atlantic a few years later because "i fEeL saFeR tHerE" or something equally inane. (Someone needs to compare the number of dead bodies due to anti-Semitism in the USA vs Israel over the last 30 years.)
Israel may have more than it's fair share of sex freaks because when the USA gets too hot for a pervert, they make aliyah. It's the same for the other religious fringe types -- they go to Israel because they can be authentic there. In the USA they'd be marginalized and have a hard time finding their herd. In Israel they can start over in the herd. In general, people who feel they are striking out chutz l'aretz make aliyah. They go if they can't afford college, they go if they can't find a job after college, they go if they can't find a spouse, they go for their mid-life crisis. Arguably, the existence of Israel improves the stock in America.
"What this means, though, is that, in every generation, the most committed and dedicated members of the community, those who would have been a good gabbai, leave for Israel." 100%, actually made me laugh given that a good chunk of the people I know who made/are in the middle of making aliyah fit that description. I'm very curious to see how the influx of anglo families making aliyah impacts Israeli politics down the line.
Separetely, when are you going to write the "why I am still in Israel/why I am leaving Israel" follow up to this? Would also be interested in a "why I made aliyah" post too. "My life is here and moving is hard" isn't a very convincing line, given the sheer amount of time and effort you put into writing this blog.
Their impact will be nothing, just like previous waves. Feiglin invested effort into organising them, to no avail, and so did Bennett until he realised it was pointless and pursued Israelis instead.
I don't know, previous waves immigrated for different reasons. I think the stakes are different for the Anglos who make aliyah post Oct 7. I could be too optimistic, but I'm hopeful anyway.
This is weird, because almost all your examples of the depravity of frum Israelis is real just about Chassidim, except for the Covid example which was silly, as another commenter noted, as it had nothing to do with integration of culture but rather about living in a crowded police state.
Chassidim in AMerica are better because Satmar aren'e Chassidim as you always say, Bobov isn't much closer to Chassidus; the rest is mostly Lubavitch.
My position, indeed, is that Hungarian/Romanian chassidim are not really chassidim, but since they are the majority of 'chassidim' and they are all bawsically similar to each other, the term by default refers to them.
I don't think Hungarian/Romanian chassidim are not a monolothic. Belz has a strong history of Chassidus. Viznitz Monsey is perhaps closest to Litvaks (דקדוק בהלכה, התמדה) but Vizhnitz Bnei Brak has descended to the lowest of the low.
I guess Hungarian/Romanian chassidim aren't Chassidim by default but considering that they claim to follow the Chassidic tradition they at great risk of actually taking it serious.
It's a complicated topic. To some extent, the Satmar Rebbe made up on his own what chassidus was and bullied the other groups into conforming to it to various degrees. But we'll get to that too.
That's my point (though I would say the Satmar Rebbe was just completing the task started by the CHasm Sofer, the Divrei Chaim etc). America is better simply because (outside of Lubavitch and Skver) it's under the influence of Satmar.
Agreed that losing our exilic identities suck, but it’s happening and there’s nothing we can do to stop it whether we like it or not. I imagine best case scenario of Israeli cultural development and identity to be a mix of all these diaspora cultures, a global identity if you will, sort of like how places like NYC are, where the collective culture is unified by the best of Jewish, Black, Latina, Italian, Polish, Irish, Indian, Arab cultures, cuisines, humor, vibes etc.
That being said, I don’t feel that what’s unfolding in Israel today is best case scenario at all, it’s not even average case scenario. I genuinely feel that a lot of parts of this country are going through decivilization. Increasing youth violence, horrible education and literacy rates, haredi insanity, number of arsim growing more in every generation, no public decorum or awareness whatsoever, lack of intellectual movements. I wish the government would put more money and resources into cultural development in the country beyond “we’re a thousands of years old people and our enemies never defeat us, blah blah.” We’re still such a young country and have so much potential, most of it being completely wasted.
I find myself not so much disagreeing with you but thinking you may be underestimating how bad things are in diaspora. If you are 35 and you walk into a Conservative synagogue, people light up like you are a celebrity. It's really sad. I have less exposure to this, but the more decorous orthodox synagogues feel the same way. There are very few younger people and the ones there are often come off as weird seekers (looks in mirror) or are clearly neurologically abnormal. ‘Religion fit for literate people’ just does not seem self-sustaining in diaspora. Why is a long story, religious faith runs against the general current of the society, but it is what it is. Your point about Aliyah pulling away the most sincere orthodox is interesting but ultimately it looks to me like the only forms of Judaism that will survive in diaspora will function by rigid dogmatism and isolation.
I also think that some of your complaints about Judaism in Israel, more in previous articles than this one, reflect a dynamic where in diaspora, dumber and less conscientious Jews simply drift away from the community whereas in Israel, they get found by Chabad or Breslovers or some such. The same way you have gangsters in the US with big gold crosses, you have arsim in Israel with oversized kippot. Part of being the majority religion is that the trash are also part of your religion, but it's better than the average age of your minyan being eighty.
Strong comment.
There seems to be a link between the early state Labour Zionists’ belief that everyone would into turn into moshavniks and Israeli vulgarity. They really could not appreciate how unique the pre state Yishuv society was. They had a high trust, high civic engagement, high human capital society and also relatively high in individualism (Labour Zionism emphasized Aliyah as an individual moral choice). Labour Zionists also promoted a simple aesthetic style and high informality in society for their own ideological reasons. Now high informality works in high trust, high human capital cultures as seen in Scandinavia or even Old Yankee New England (The Swedes manage to combine this with dressing well!!!). It also worked, for the most part, in a secular ideologically committed Ashkenazi Yishuv. High informality does not however, work with most of the rest of humanity, and when you both intentionally and unintentionally transfer these norms to low trust, low contentiousness peoples you get well…
And after all that, when everyone stopped believing in labour Zionism and its ideals, all we were left with was Philistinism. The aesthetics and culture Religious Zionism is one of the more horrifying products of this process.
Excellent comment.
I'll start by accepting that although you state no actual figures and continuously engage in the no good Scotsman fallacy, your are in important ways right: particularly in the increased propensity to racial generalisations, incivility and sectarianism of the more left wing orthodox (modox) groupings as they move to Israel.
By way of illustration: you should look in the mirror. All your based race discourse is uncivil ranting by ModOrth standards.
I continue by providing some important counter examples seeking to prove that in important ways Charedim are Charedi wherever they live
Charedi violence: Read between the lines here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/421867.stm - dude had 7 different flavours of snot beaten out of him for entertainment by Gateshead boys before he came back with his air pistol. A practice that was repeated with increasing frequency throughout a winter zeman. See also: Zalmis v Ahronis, Skver, 770 battles.
Around half of the English born Satmar boys in Gateshead literally can neither read nor write in English. Not functionally illiterate: illiterate illiterate. The Rosh HaYeshiva, Rabbi A Gurwitz, who received a fine secular education at Newcastle Grammar, opposed any changes to that status quo and said Jews should leave the UK if the children and schools bill passed. It did; he didn't.
Diasporic sex criminals: Lev Tahor is a diaspora sexual, spiritual, and physical abuse cult apart from the deceased franchise founder who was Israeli.
Todros Grynhaus was convicted for only a small fraction of his crimes. He began violating younger schoolboys in Stamford Hill, while a teen himself, then a roommate in Gateshead yeshiva which brought him to R' Mattisyahu Salomon's attention, then after marriage, a horrifying stint working in a Gibraltar boys' kindergarten, and finally in Manchester against boys and girls. He was and is being supported by the richest man in Broughton Park, even if that man claims to be tax domiciled in Israel. I cannot comment in detail on Chaim Halpern due to the UK's oppressive sub judice rules. I disagree strongly with your "meh" characterisation of both the quantum and quality of allegations against him. Malka Leifer.
Good comment.
The Israeli Charedi community has about the same rate of Todros Grynhaus type cases I believe. Two names that stick in the mind are Elior Chen and Yisrael Draiman. I did not identify this as a difference between Israeli and diaspora Charedim.
I like chassidim, illiteracy notwithstanding, but, in any case, I don't think that the mainstream groups are all that different here and abroad.
Lev Tahor is a clear example of Israeli religion being spread abroad. I even thought of including it in the article.
To complete my brief biography of the life and works of Todros Grynhaus, I missed out his two teaching jobs at Manchester Mesivta (fka MJGS), where I found him cold, astute and capable, with an odd habit of pacing around with his hands down his trousers, and then Eitz Chaim; and the Sheves Achim after school activity centre and summer camp he founded and procured victims in. After his abuse came to the attention of the Gateshead Rav, Rabbi Zimmerman, he was moved on from work in education, and founded a successful payment aggregator business. Rabbi Zimmerman faced significant pushback for this (inadequate) response from the right wing of his Gateshead litvak community in relation to this and another case of alleged sexual abuse. This appears to have been a material factor in his decision to find alternative employment as head of the London Federation beis din. After arrest Grynhaus fled to Israel, where he was was recognised and held at gunpoint on a bus by a serving chayal, one of his former pupils, then to Africa. He was eventually returned to England. His first trial collapsed as the jury could not reach a verdict. He was convicted in a second trial.
It is true that he did not lead a charismatic sexual abuse cult. Throughout his life he was enabled by his father, a dayan of the UOHC beis din, by various other Charedi authority figures who thought they were managing him when he was managing them, and by the Jewish religious institutions he attended and worked in. When asked to explain his behaviour he told Rabbi Zimmerman and Rabbi Gershon Miller (briefly of MJGS, then of Gateshead, now of Lakewood) that he was possessed by demons. He has continuously professed Charedi Judaism. To my mind, he resembles Church of England abuser John Smyth in his sick sadism, wily abuse of institutions, and general competence.
The wilful blindness of some of those Rabbis to the preventable abuse of what could be over 100 victims in the name of "mesira" is shameful.
There is nothing specifically Israeli or indeed Jewish I can identify about Lev Tahor Helbrans fled Israel for the same reason he later fled Canada: child protective services were closing in. The abuse of the cult members are to my mind substantially analogous to those of the Branch Davidians, the Unification Church / Moonies, Scientology, NXIVM, the Children of God, the early Mormon church, and other charismatic cults.
I guess my point is this: a grand unified theory of human failure based on a critique of zionism, zoharism, is an obvious exercise in futility. That's not to say there aren't critiques to be made, but they miss the point. People -men- are like this mainly because of what is between their legs, and not because of what is between their ears.
I agree that the story of Grynhaus tells us that (a) evil has a randomness to it (parenthetically, his parents, though obviously lacking moral fibre, were/are [I'm not up to date] sweet and kind people and that (b) Charedim totally suck at child protection (though things have improved).
I don't think Israel provides a general explanation for Jewish failure. It's just it doesn't offer any of the benefits Zionists promised, and has made many problems worse.
I'm going to remove that section of the article, because while I think it is actually true, it could be construed (perhaps justly) as being mezalzel the seriousness of 'ordinary' sexual abuse.
I did note that Austrian and Belgian chassidim on average speak and write better English than English chassidim. It's not clear to me that US chassidim are better educated. Yaffed seemed to me to make excellent points about deficits boys' education before they quit.
Blaming this fear of secular knowledge on the state of Israel is in my opinion without foundation.
An analogous debate about studying the Greek language can be found in the Mishanic era (see Sotah 49a).. The yeshiva in Volozhin specifically closed in part because of rabbinical opposition to secular learning, a long standing position. It seems to me that this debate arises cyclically throughout Jewish history during periods of relative peace,
There's not much difference among Chassidim (Ger excluded), but the difference between the Israeli and Chul Litvish communities is night and day.
I am trying to parse why you think this is.
Yes: they don't have their nose in the central government trough with the shameless veniality of a Moshe Gafni. That's a function of much smaller numbers, and first past the post electoral systems, not of any chul pragmaticism.
However: Shaarei Torah in Manchester and Sunderland and Yeshiva kettanah of Gateshead are full of hundreds of 15 or even 14 year old charedi Litvak boys who leave their charedi not litvak school with minimal or no formal qualification. They will go on to more advanced yeshivas then get married, then start a family, and then worry about earning a living, which is often accomplished (for those without familial wealth) through the benefits system.
I mentioned that the hardcore Gateshead Litvaks hold liberal views on alleged child sexual abuse, and it was a factor in Rabbi Zimmerman's departure from his role as Gateshead Rav.
In my view Rabbi A Kotler was as radical as Rav Shach, a radicalism once can trace back not just to the radicalism of Rabbi Karlitz but also to Rabbi Wasserman. Lakewood is full of fruitcakes. A Gateshead resident felt the need to remonstrate with me for reciting kiddush levana with no hat on. Another was genuinely disgusted to hear I was a blood donor (Goyim should have your blood for free?)
I like how you started off with a moving and profound reflection on the need for mutual sympathy and understanding among religious groups in Israel to be an agudah achas and then proceed to trash every single religious group apparently just for the sake of it to an audience of mostly non-Jews. Hillul Hashem 101
(a) My audience is mostly Jews. (b) Non-Jews these days are seeing a lot worse than I'm putting out. I'm the only one trying to not throw the whole of Judaism in the bin along with the unfolding disaster zone of Israel.
What do you think is the solution for religious culture in Israel? Because, while it's true that there's a lot of derangement in certain sectors having visited EY a number of time I can sense that there's a general enthusiasm for Judaism among ordinary Israelis that is simply not present in the diaspora (even in the Orthodox communities). I guess what I'm asking is that it seems like for the first time since the destruction of the kehilos in Europe you have a new religious culture that has emerged organically and it seems unwise to just write it all off as sickness even if you think it's problematic how it is expressed in practice.
1) As I say in the article, we need to support existing communities that maintain a strong exilic identity to resist the cancer of Chabad, Breslev etc.
2) The reason you don't find enthusiasm among MO in America is that the enthusiastic ones go to Israel. This needs to be fixed if you want to fix MO, since there is no MO in Israel.
3) Ultimately, I agree that the only way is through. There are various answers to the problem, and I am involved in one of them helping with preparation of materials, though they would probably prefer I don't publicise this. The most plausible I have seen so far is https://www.youtube.com/@shivreluhot.
However, none of them are at the mass-marketing stage.
Well, he didn't trash Reform and Conservative Jews, who greatly outnumber Orthodox Jews, at least in America. Of course, maybe he doesn't consider us Real Jews. But the Jewish religion in Israel might benefit from larger Reform and Conservative-Masorti communities.
Conservative-Masorti messed up and positioned itself as a movement for slightly more committed Reform. It's not going anywhere. Not even worth discussing.
Two things:
1) most of these people, had they lived in Chutzpah Laaretz, would be either assimilated or dead. Not much of an improvement.
2) this screed reads like a typical anti-semitic screed of bad rabbis, but with a veneer that it's not "all Jews".
I've been to Uman many many times. If you think 99% of these people are ok with child sex or even plain rape you are a demented hateful sicko. The people you cited are anomalies who no one ever heard of. (The sole exception being Berland, who besides for being a world class perv was also a noted Ashkenazi genius.) Berland is a sign against Breslov as much as he is against Judaism as a whole.
The same with all the Zohar stuff. Benyomen already pointed out all the crazy stuff in the talmud. Let's face it, those who are pervs will twist anything, and vice versa. There's not a significant difference.
I agree that extremism is bad and it seems likely that being Israeli exacerbates extremism (just compare your blogs to outside of Israel blogs with the level of hatred toward fellow Jews). But I don't think that Chabad, Breslov, Zohar or Litvaks are significantly worse than the rest of your list.
The main point is and should be don't follow a cult.
“Berland is a sign against Breslov as much as he is against Judaism as a whole.”
Unbelievable the depths of nonsense Breslov apologists will go to.
Breslev is heresy. It was heresy then, it’s heresy now, and it will be heresy forever. And it will be prohibited by law.
What's your argument!? It's heresy? Fine. So is Catholicism. But I don't go around pretending that priestly child rape is an inherent result of Catholic ideology. I know a bunch of great catholics IRL.
Pick a critique and stick to it.
The theology of Breslev is that connection to God comes through connection to tzaddikim who are identifiable by their emotional instability. It's designed to be abused (Nacham himself only abused it for his own ego as a cult leader, not baser pleasures).
Obviously, mandatory celibacy for priests is an important cause of child abuse scandals in the church.
I've seen it pretty strongly argued that child sexual abuse by priests is far less statistically common than child sexual abuse in the public education system. I suppose those numbers might shift if kids today attended church as frequently as they attend school, but I'd have to see the math on that.
Not really. But fine.
True breslovers only accept the one true tzaddik. This helps a lot.
Rock Rabeinu.
About 1, hard to know. In some cases, yes. But in other cases, they may have been killed or injured serving in the army or in terrorism, and would have been alive without Zionism, in Arab countries, with dhimmi status, or would have been living in America safely. With Russian Jews, America was actually willing to take in large numbers of jews - and many of them preferred to go there - but Yitzchak Shamir put pressure on America not to accept them! (This is not a conspiracy. it's documented!), which is really sick stuff, regardless of what one thinks of Zionism. Anyway, I think it is very hard to know - but if we had to guess, probarly more Jews would be alive without Zionism - that's my feeling.
But you're right that most likely, it saved the Jewish people from a lot of assimilation and intermarriage. But even there, on the flip side, it caused many Sephardi Jews to become irreligious - albeit not assimilated. Sorry for the long rant.
"most of these people, had they lived in Chutzpah Laaretz, would be either assimilated or dead. Not much of an improvement."
This is the best counter-argument, so you win the prize for being the first person not to just splutter. First, however, it's rather melodramatic. If you took most Litvish in Israel and put them in America, they wouldn't die (??) or assimilate, they would just become American Charedim, i.e. better.
Secondly, even to the extent it's true, so what? By 2050 there are going to be 5 million Charedim in America. Judaism doesn't have a numbers problem, it has a rapidly escalating human capital problem. Israel is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
It's entirely possible that 2050 America is going to be alternating between the ideological heirs of Tucker Carlson and Zohran Mamdani, in which case I wouldn't count on the 5 million Haredi being guests for too long.
To be fair, I don't have a high opinion of Roma or Somalis establishing colonies in western societies where they reproduce at 3x the normal rate and would gradually take over the electorate given enough time, so... frankly it's not clear why I should tolerate similar behaviour by the Haredi. Even if welfare dependency and criminal offending are less of an issue, the long-term setup there is not sustainable.
The litvish wouldn't die. I was referring to the sefardi arsim who'd be dead had they stayed in their host countries.
Arsim wearing tzitzis are infinitely better than arsim who don't. I know many many people who used Breslov heresy of not giving up to pull themselves out of criminality and create a functional healthy life even if they do sneak into uman during COVID.
Your ideology would have just caused them to OD.
Moroccans wouldn't be dead. Morocco is kind of a crummy place to live, as is Afula. This is just hyperventilating Zionist nonsense.
Yay. One group.
Syrians Egyptians Yemenites etc
They happen to be about a 1/4 of the total, but in the case of all the others, they definitely would have been better off in most cases if the state of israel never existed. The only really clear cut counter-example is Yemen.
It's not clear that it made such a difference, but certainly Rabi Akiva made a grave mistake by endorsing Bar Kokhba, a depraved megalomaniac who got hundreds of thousands of Jews killed.
I think the Chazon Ish made some grave mistakes. I don't trash him because he wasn't a rapist or a criminal. Doesn't seem too hard to understand.
I accept the traditional Rabbinic view which denounces his political views while revering his Torah scholarship. I can't revere the Torah scholarship of a Breslevor because it's all nonsense and idiocy.
Put simply, he's an autodidact. Which wouldn't be a bad thing, except there's way too much auto and not quite enough didact.
I knew his real name. It's not exactly a secret.
I actually don't mind his critiques on Judaism or of the Zoharic texts. I think they are very valuable. It's when he tries to illustrate badness from a few bad people is where I draw the line.
It's just 20% of Breslev leaders who are criminals, wait 30%, is 35% so bad?
It's 0.01%
You know that's not true.
It is. At least among second generation and beyond. A very large percentage of the crazies are renegades from other groups, or chilonim who found rabbeinu while on the run from the police. Not unlike the way a lot of the really exotic people in the old city are olim.
Can you bring actual stats? You have like 5 people.
Meh you have to be more judgemental. You just notice he spouts garbage when it comes to something you are more familiar with. I'm happy to make a generalization that his incorrect worldview contaminates everything he writes about. He is very funny in a sardonic way but also a bit mental.
What is the broader communities response to these incidents?
Well, the most famous Brelsov personality, Shlomo Arush, said multiple times that Berland is innocent, a complete tzaddik, and anyone who doesn't trust him is retarded.
And others such as Yaakov Meir Schechter has said he's a horrible criminal.
Also if Arush thinks he's innocent it's still better than thinking he's a shabsai tzvi doing it for a mitzvah
Geez. Is there actually anything Breslov could do which would change your mind?
I am quite well-exposed to a certain kind of Israeli academic (usually but not always a mathematician) abroad. They’re usually quite leftist Meretznikim/Hadashnikim or somewhere in between, v smart, interesting, often good-looking. But they aren’t noticeably diasporic. At this point you will probably say ‘oh they’re white’ but even if I take up your preferred sort of racism this just means they’re white in an Israeli kind of way. This obviously isn’t much of a defence of the State because, well, they'd have been sophisticated assimilated Jews speaking German or French or whatever in the counterfactual. However, they don’t seem much worse off for being in Israel.
Well, two exceptions. 1. Maybe if they'd stayed in Vienna they'd speak seven languages instead of Hebrew, English and a smattering of nearly-fluent Arabic or Russian. But people in Vienna don’t tend to speak seven languages these days either. 2. Psychologically obviously it’s not healthy for them to lose their country to Kahanists. Also we do not yet have any literary output from this tragedy à sa hauteur.
I don't really know a great deal about chilonim.
Thinking back to my undergrad I didn’t encounter many of them either, but I might’ve expected you to have bumped into them a bit later on? (Though maybe things were better when you were about. Kind of weird how many smart Hilonim there are around these days in pseudoëxile.)
You basically wrote an article trashing in turn the entire establishment. You are wrong for among others the following reasons; a) You make overly broad generalizations b) You oversimplify nuanced issues c) you don't accept the possibility of any valid explanations for the evidence in front of you except the one that appeals to you personally, which unfortunately is to hate entire groups. That being said you present good evidence of various kinds.
You assert chareidim "don't mind resembling ... a third world country", which is of course stupid. For example I lived in Beis Yisroel for a bit, one of the "worst" neighbourhoods and they really need to bury the bins but pretty clean. I've never noticed tons of rubbish in bnei brak either even though it's denser. You point to the hafganos, those have existed like that since the state was founded. It's Litvaks integrating into chalmer culture, not chiloni. The fact the chareidim followed stupid covid guidlines is because Israel temporarily metamorphosed into an intolerant police state back then. Your pointing to a handful of American Roshei Yeshivos as a sign of the failed system fails, ironically on its own terms. As you pointed out these roshei yeshivos are older then the state. The conditions of their education has little bearing on the state of Litvishe society today. The Mirrer Rosh Yeshiva you brought as an example is completely Israeli. Reb Sholom Ber Sorotzkin is the son of an American, he himself is the most stereotypical Israeli possible. You never backed up your blithe assertion that Israeli Rabbanim, Maggidei Shiur and Mashgichim cannot say consecutive sentences.
On Lubavitch I also have my misgivings about their beliefs of their rebbe being moshiach. Fortunately the entire Litvishe establshment, rank and file agree with me. Unlike what you claim, they are largely ignored.
On Berland, the Eidah Chareidis warned people to stay away from him. That's probably as far as they are able to go without bringing down on their own heads the full wrath of his followers. There are a gigantic amount of normal Breslovers who you ignore because it's inconvenient.
On zoharism you are just plain wrong that it cannot be escaped in a mainstream Litvishe setting.
Ger also has serious institutional issues but It's not fair to dismiss a community of 12,000 families most of whom are basically normal.
Vizhnitz Merkaz wasn't discussed but it has all the problems of Ger it's much smaller and not super relevant, but deserves a mention.
The main point is not that your article has serious factual issues, but your primary conclusion is wrong. You say Israeli society sucks. Yeah, if you hyperfocus on a narrow set of data you can kind of argue for that if you squint. One major issue is that once you do that, there's not much left of religious judasim, as other people have pointed out you can apply this same critical analysis to pretty much everything. It's just you who have decided to stop here.
So let me say it. Israel society does NOT suck. We have a religious vibrancy that is unparalleled anywhere else for the world, it is the major centre of Yiddishkeit. It is full of people who fear God and understand that following Him is more important then material benefits. You are surrounded by fellow Yidden and rarely interact with goyim, yes this may lead to more petty tribalism, but we pick up less of the sicknesses that has infected Western culture. It's wonderful, this lifestyle would have been literally inconceivable a century ago. Israeli Chareidism is responsible for the survival not just of Israel, but the whole Klal Yisroel.
Yeah, you have religious vibrancy like Menashe haMelech had religious vibrancy.
'you don't accept the possibility of any valid explanations for the evidence in front of you except the one that appeals to you personally, which unfortunately is to hate entire groups.'
The only explanation that appeals to him personally is to hate entire groups? What?
I was frankly quite disappointed not to find any explanations here, only observations of things being bad. Okay, but the title of the article says 'The Effect of the State of Israel'. So, how did we get from the one to the other?
I found this article in equal parts hilarious and horrifying. You left nobody untouched by your unrestrained cynicism. Need I say you care way too much about other people and are overly pessimistic and also wrong?
Can I look forward, with morbid anticipation to a part 2 where you devastate all the people you didn't get to in this post? also out of interest which school in England did you attend, (sorry, miss your education as you would say)?
It's not me here promoting antisemitism.
This is all so stupid and whiny. I like some of your historical writing but when it comes to the modern state it becomes clear that you’re not someone who’s really suited to Aliya. Just move back to England. You hate secular Jews, you hate Israelis, and you hate religious Jews in Israel. You don’t have to live here. Lots of people think the architecture here isn’t that great but there’s things they like about the place. It doesn’t seem like you like anything here. Yalla, so leave—-there’s no shame in that. You don’t have to live somewhere you don’t like.
If I'm talking about the lack of milk in the shops, or poor customer service, or the low standards of chazzanus etc. then fine, but I can't escape the implosion of Judaism as a religion. Even if I moved, I would have to devote myself to resisting Israelization.
Aside from Gershom Scholem the millions of Israelis who are not Orthodox Jews and are the single largest group in the state seem basically invisible to you; but they have rich internal lives that are fully independent of whatever effects the ingathering and has had on Orthodox Judaism. It’s really quite unfair to judge this state and Zionism solely on the effect it is had on your subculture. Yes, subculture. To you it is divine, to me it is a subculture. I see you agreeing with someone below that Zionism has had a net negative effect on Jewish lives. This is a truly asinine position. And I’m not some raging right winger.
Could well be. I wish them luck.
Interesting stuff. My family is Jewish, all of them fled Germany for Israel and later returned when I was born and I am currently the only one without Israeli citizenship. My family have been secular, or atheistic for at least 100 years so my only interaction with the Synagogue was when my grand mother died and when I was studying Philosophy in University.
Interesting. But too pessimistic for me - there are lots of great things about Israel also!
Will there be a part 2 about Kookism, Kahanism, Chardal, Dati leumi, etc.? Looking forward to that.
I don't know what you'd call "religious zionists" but I can say the modox here in the USA are not Zionist religious people. The Zionism absolutely comes first and foremost and is the primary religion. If they had to choose between celebrating Chanukah and celebrating Yom Ha'atzmaut, I have no doubt which would win. The suckiest part of being in a modox community is making friends only to have them move across the Atlantic a few years later because "i fEeL saFeR tHerE" or something equally inane. (Someone needs to compare the number of dead bodies due to anti-Semitism in the USA vs Israel over the last 30 years.)
Israel may have more than it's fair share of sex freaks because when the USA gets too hot for a pervert, they make aliyah. It's the same for the other religious fringe types -- they go to Israel because they can be authentic there. In the USA they'd be marginalized and have a hard time finding their herd. In Israel they can start over in the herd. In general, people who feel they are striking out chutz l'aretz make aliyah. They go if they can't afford college, they go if they can't find a job after college, they go if they can't find a spouse, they go for their mid-life crisis. Arguably, the existence of Israel improves the stock in America.
"What this means, though, is that, in every generation, the most committed and dedicated members of the community, those who would have been a good gabbai, leave for Israel." 100%, actually made me laugh given that a good chunk of the people I know who made/are in the middle of making aliyah fit that description. I'm very curious to see how the influx of anglo families making aliyah impacts Israeli politics down the line.
Separetely, when are you going to write the "why I am still in Israel/why I am leaving Israel" follow up to this? Would also be interested in a "why I made aliyah" post too. "My life is here and moving is hard" isn't a very convincing line, given the sheer amount of time and effort you put into writing this blog.
Their impact will be nothing, just like previous waves. Feiglin invested effort into organising them, to no avail, and so did Bennett until he realised it was pointless and pursued Israelis instead.
I don't know, previous waves immigrated for different reasons. I think the stakes are different for the Anglos who make aliyah post Oct 7. I could be too optimistic, but I'm hopeful anyway.
This is weird, because almost all your examples of the depravity of frum Israelis is real just about Chassidim, except for the Covid example which was silly, as another commenter noted, as it had nothing to do with integration of culture but rather about living in a crowded police state.
Chassidim in AMerica are better because Satmar aren'e Chassidim as you always say, Bobov isn't much closer to Chassidus; the rest is mostly Lubavitch.
My position, indeed, is that Hungarian/Romanian chassidim are not really chassidim, but since they are the majority of 'chassidim' and they are all bawsically similar to each other, the term by default refers to them.
I don't think Hungarian/Romanian chassidim are not a monolothic. Belz has a strong history of Chassidus. Viznitz Monsey is perhaps closest to Litvaks (דקדוק בהלכה, התמדה) but Vizhnitz Bnei Brak has descended to the lowest of the low.
I guess Hungarian/Romanian chassidim aren't Chassidim by default but considering that they claim to follow the Chassidic tradition they at great risk of actually taking it serious.
It's a complicated topic. To some extent, the Satmar Rebbe made up on his own what chassidus was and bullied the other groups into conforming to it to various degrees. But we'll get to that too.
That's my point (though I would say the Satmar Rebbe was just completing the task started by the CHasm Sofer, the Divrei Chaim etc). America is better simply because (outside of Lubavitch and Skver) it's under the influence of Satmar.
I forgot to mention that I view Kookianism as an extension, and just another branch of Chassidus.
We'll get to that in due course.