What do you think about Chen Shaulov, who you mentioned as a positive model several times, also being a flat earther? Should we just resign ourselves to a base level of idiocy with ayone who tries to appeal to the proles?
It's a bit more than that. Chen Shaulov started off as a Amnon Yitzhak conspiracy bro and then got into flat earth. He encountered the Zohar for the first time when confronted with the problem that the Zohar clearly endorses a round earth (which is, indeed, one of the many thousands of signs that it is a collection of medieval writings). So, he set out to investigate this clearly fraudulent book and discovered it to be a tissue of blasphemy and nonsense and was outraged.
God works in mysterious ways. I used to think Shaulov was more of a liability than an asset, but reality has proved otherwise. I'm still a snob, but there are more important things than being a snob.
“This has a lot of implications, but one of them is that you can’t be a Kahanist and a mekorist anymore. They are incompatible things. Not everyone can figure that out on their own, but it’s pretty obvious once it is pointed out.”
I've recently noticed a lot of chatter about some so called movement called mekorists.
Anyway, IMHO there is a fatal fundamental flaw in that entire “shitta”.
I think the fundamental problem with Mekorism is that it misunderstands how Torah itself works
Torah was given over to the חכמים and to כלל ישראל. The entire point of תנורו של עכנאי is that even when a בת קול declares what the “correct” answer is, we respond: לא בשמים היא. And הקב״ה Himself smiles and says: נצחוני בני, נצחוני בני. Once Torah was given, its authoritative meaning is determined through the Torah process on earth, wherever that process may lead and even if it is "mistaken".
The Torah belongs to the mesora. The mesora doesn't just preserve and transmit the Torah; it is the Torah.
The Rambam makes an extraordinary statement along these lines when explaining the authority of the Bavli: “כל הדברים שבתלמוד הבבלי חייבין כל ישראל ללכת בהם... הואיל וכל אותן הדברים שבתלמוד הסכימו עליהם כל ישראל.” Its authority rests on the fact that כלל ישראל accepted it.
The talmud is only authoratative because we accepted it. The same we that went on to accept the Shulchan Aruch and the mainstream mesora that continued through the rishonim and achronim.
This is precisely what Mekorism seems to get wrong!
The Mesorah is not a potentially corrupted transmission that we need to restore or "debug" in order to discover the original correct meaning. The development of the Mesorah itself becomes the authentic torah, period!
Even if, hypothetically, an academic could demonstrate that the Zohar was written later than traditionally believed, or that a certain accepted Halacha or practice was not historically what an earlier source originally meant, that does not undo its place within Torah. If כלל ישראל and its חכמים have absorbed something into the Mesorah, and certainly when an understanding has become embedded in the Shulchan Aruch or its universally accepted commentaries, that acceptance itself makes it authentic Torah.
The Torah is not open to academic study in order to rediscover what the mesora got "wrong" because the mesora cannot be wrong. Because even if it is technically wrong, it will always be right because it becomes Torah and the will of G-d by virtue of the fact that it was accepted and ratified by klal Yisrael.
Mekorists today screaming that the Shulchan Aruch or magen Avraham or .... are wrong because the authentic meaning of a mishna / gemara is something else, are no different than Rabbi Eliezer screaming that he was right, backed up by a bas-kol. They may be "right" but they are wrong.
לא בשמים היא.
The Halacha follows רוב חכמי ישראל. Not because they are always right rather because that is the system the Torah itself setup.
Perhaps I have forgotten something, but I do not believe you have ever identified a single mistake, let alone moronic element, in anything I have written about Israel, nor done anything except point and splutter because you were triggered by something or other.
The Habura people feel deeply flattered to have been called well-adjusted for the first time in their lives and they owe you a debt of gratitude
What do you think about Chen Shaulov, who you mentioned as a positive model several times, also being a flat earther? Should we just resign ourselves to a base level of idiocy with ayone who tries to appeal to the proles?
It's a bit more than that. Chen Shaulov started off as a Amnon Yitzhak conspiracy bro and then got into flat earth. He encountered the Zohar for the first time when confronted with the problem that the Zohar clearly endorses a round earth (which is, indeed, one of the many thousands of signs that it is a collection of medieval writings). So, he set out to investigate this clearly fraudulent book and discovered it to be a tissue of blasphemy and nonsense and was outraged.
God works in mysterious ways. I used to think Shaulov was more of a liability than an asset, but reality has proved otherwise. I'm still a snob, but there are more important things than being a snob.
Can you say more? Shaulov is a Rambamist and a flat-earther? How would that even be possible?
also, I searched and maskil at least one time said he's an ah, almost at Kahanist levels.
“This has a lot of implications, but one of them is that you can’t be a Kahanist and a mekorist anymore. They are incompatible things. Not everyone can figure that out on their own, but it’s pretty obvious once it is pointed out.”
Hold my beer
The photo of the young messianic in 770, is very very sad,
As a Lubavitcher I say, it is not Chabad and brings total dishonor to the legacy of the Rebbe ( May his merit protect us)
The messianic theology is a cult.
I've recently noticed a lot of chatter about some so called movement called mekorists.
Anyway, IMHO there is a fatal fundamental flaw in that entire “shitta”.
I think the fundamental problem with Mekorism is that it misunderstands how Torah itself works
Torah was given over to the חכמים and to כלל ישראל. The entire point of תנורו של עכנאי is that even when a בת קול declares what the “correct” answer is, we respond: לא בשמים היא. And הקב״ה Himself smiles and says: נצחוני בני, נצחוני בני. Once Torah was given, its authoritative meaning is determined through the Torah process on earth, wherever that process may lead and even if it is "mistaken".
The Torah belongs to the mesora. The mesora doesn't just preserve and transmit the Torah; it is the Torah.
The Rambam makes an extraordinary statement along these lines when explaining the authority of the Bavli: “כל הדברים שבתלמוד הבבלי חייבין כל ישראל ללכת בהם... הואיל וכל אותן הדברים שבתלמוד הסכימו עליהם כל ישראל.” Its authority rests on the fact that כלל ישראל accepted it.
The talmud is only authoratative because we accepted it. The same we that went on to accept the Shulchan Aruch and the mainstream mesora that continued through the rishonim and achronim.
This is precisely what Mekorism seems to get wrong!
The Mesorah is not a potentially corrupted transmission that we need to restore or "debug" in order to discover the original correct meaning. The development of the Mesorah itself becomes the authentic torah, period!
Even if, hypothetically, an academic could demonstrate that the Zohar was written later than traditionally believed, or that a certain accepted Halacha or practice was not historically what an earlier source originally meant, that does not undo its place within Torah. If כלל ישראל and its חכמים have absorbed something into the Mesorah, and certainly when an understanding has become embedded in the Shulchan Aruch or its universally accepted commentaries, that acceptance itself makes it authentic Torah.
The Torah is not open to academic study in order to rediscover what the mesora got "wrong" because the mesora cannot be wrong. Because even if it is technically wrong, it will always be right because it becomes Torah and the will of G-d by virtue of the fact that it was accepted and ratified by klal Yisrael.
Mekorists today screaming that the Shulchan Aruch or magen Avraham or .... are wrong because the authentic meaning of a mishna / gemara is something else, are no different than Rabbi Eliezer screaming that he was right, backed up by a bas-kol. They may be "right" but they are wrong.
לא בשמים היא.
The Halacha follows רוב חכמי ישראל. Not because they are always right rather because that is the system the Torah itself setup.
Question: can you please elaborate on how Meqorist readings are mistaken, with a few examples?
No.
Why not??? Are all your comments just “inside baseball”???
Yes
Bizarre.
I wish you weren’t such a moron in your Israel writing because, while I’m more of a glass-half-full person about this, your program here is spot on.
Perhaps I have forgotten something, but I do not believe you have ever identified a single mistake, let alone moronic element, in anything I have written about Israel, nor done anything except point and splutter because you were triggered by something or other.