I wrote this before getting to the postscript: "To the extent that Trotskyism defines socialists who don't like Soviet-style communism, the FDR coalition was Trotskyite. Which I believe makes Yarvin a Trotskyite, which also makes him a neocon."
"Neocons are Trotskyites" is beginning to sound like the James Lindsey formulation that "White identity is a form of Wokeness, and Wokeness is a form of Gnosticism." I am more willing to believe that "Neocons are Straussians."
I want to offer an alternate explanation as to what Yarvin actually means when he says that NeoCons are Trotskyites: It may not be literally true that they are (in the main) morphologically descended, or even heavily influenced by trotskyism. But it’s SPIRITUALLY true. Meaning, NeoCons, since their rise to dominance in the 80’s, have filled the same role in relation to the left that the original Trotskyists played in relation to the Bolsheviks - they’re true believers in the revolution, but they want to be more pragmatic and realistic in how it’s implemented, rather than trying to skip straight to whatever vision of utopia the ruling leftist elite are currently trying to steer towards.
In other words, the whole phenomenon of “conservatives are just progressives driving the speed limit” is an inherently Trotskyist one, which the NeoCons perfectly embody.
It wasn’t necessarily meant to be a charitable defense of Yarvin, it’s just my candid opinion of what i think he means whenever he repeats this “neocons = trotskyites” meme. I don’t know what you mean by “wordcellism”.
I think the charitable "spiritually true" angle is just that Trotsky wanted to export the revolution (as opposed to the "nationalist," socialism-in-one-country Stalin). Neocons supposedly want to export the [American] revolution/democracy.
That is even worse since, as the article I linked to the footnote points out, the whole point of Trotsky’s advocacy of world revolution was to obviate the need for exporting communism by Russian military action, which he was against. Stalin invaded loads of countries to export socialism.
"Neocons are Trotskyites" seems to result from the crossing of mental wires of two related observations.
Trotsky himself went from being a full throat supporter of Bolshevism to a detractor upon seeing what would become of it exercising centralized authority, as it would go on to do through Stalin.
A very influential group of American Communists went from being full throat supporters of Bolshevism to detractors upon seeing what became of it exercising centralized authority through Stalin.
That they ended up going in somewhat different ideological directions is usually missed because of the obscurity of Trotsky's political career after exile. Also important is that both neocons and neoliberals would be heavily influenced / controlled by this group of ex-communists, rather than there being a distinct "Stalinist" wing after the Civil Rights movement.
It was a little shocking to learn that used to have Pat Buchanan on. While I remember a lot of the vitriol towards the Bush admin growing up, I rarely saw it go so far as giving any voice to what remained of paleoconservatives. I don't think it was all that common a practice.
I remember an even better example. I was reading the Times Literary Supplement in 2003 or 4 and reading a very positive piece about Claes Ryn and Paul Gottfried and their criticism of neocons. I had never even heard of Paul Gottfried at the time and it was only years later that it popped into my head and I realized how strange that was.
I just want to stop and admire the phrase “grandiloquent yet meaningless” as applied to Curtis Yarvin. Man that guy bloviates.
I wrote this before getting to the postscript: "To the extent that Trotskyism defines socialists who don't like Soviet-style communism, the FDR coalition was Trotskyite. Which I believe makes Yarvin a Trotskyite, which also makes him a neocon."
"Neocons are Trotskyites" is beginning to sound like the James Lindsey formulation that "White identity is a form of Wokeness, and Wokeness is a form of Gnosticism." I am more willing to believe that "Neocons are Straussians."
Ha! The FDR coalition was definitely not defined by not liking Soviet style communism.
My favorite Trotsky fact is that his granddaughter is the director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse in the United States
I want to offer an alternate explanation as to what Yarvin actually means when he says that NeoCons are Trotskyites: It may not be literally true that they are (in the main) morphologically descended, or even heavily influenced by trotskyism. But it’s SPIRITUALLY true. Meaning, NeoCons, since their rise to dominance in the 80’s, have filled the same role in relation to the left that the original Trotskyists played in relation to the Bolsheviks - they’re true believers in the revolution, but they want to be more pragmatic and realistic in how it’s implemented, rather than trying to skip straight to whatever vision of utopia the ruling leftist elite are currently trying to steer towards.
In other words, the whole phenomenon of “conservatives are just progressives driving the speed limit” is an inherently Trotskyist one, which the NeoCons perfectly embody.
I think that is an even less charitable interpretation than the one I arrived at. Pure wordcelism.
It wasn’t necessarily meant to be a charitable defense of Yarvin, it’s just my candid opinion of what i think he means whenever he repeats this “neocons = trotskyites” meme. I don’t know what you mean by “wordcellism”.
I think the charitable "spiritually true" angle is just that Trotsky wanted to export the revolution (as opposed to the "nationalist," socialism-in-one-country Stalin). Neocons supposedly want to export the [American] revolution/democracy.
That is even worse since, as the article I linked to the footnote points out, the whole point of Trotsky’s advocacy of world revolution was to obviate the need for exporting communism by Russian military action, which he was against. Stalin invaded loads of countries to export socialism.
Yeah i guess that kind of fits together with my interpretation
"Neocons are Trotskyites" seems to result from the crossing of mental wires of two related observations.
Trotsky himself went from being a full throat supporter of Bolshevism to a detractor upon seeing what would become of it exercising centralized authority, as it would go on to do through Stalin.
A very influential group of American Communists went from being full throat supporters of Bolshevism to detractors upon seeing what became of it exercising centralized authority through Stalin.
That they ended up going in somewhat different ideological directions is usually missed because of the obscurity of Trotsky's political career after exile. Also important is that both neocons and neoliberals would be heavily influenced / controlled by this group of ex-communists, rather than there being a distinct "Stalinist" wing after the Civil Rights movement.
It was a little shocking to learn that used to have Pat Buchanan on. While I remember a lot of the vitriol towards the Bush admin growing up, I rarely saw it go so far as giving any voice to what remained of paleoconservatives. I don't think it was all that common a practice.
I remember an even better example. I was reading the Times Literary Supplement in 2003 or 4 and reading a very positive piece about Claes Ryn and Paul Gottfried and their criticism of neocons. I had never even heard of Paul Gottfried at the time and it was only years later that it popped into my head and I realized how strange that was.
I've been waiting for someone to write this post for years.
I hope it doesn't disappoint.
I see you earned a הסכמה from your fellow Brit, IfYouTickleUs:
https://x.com/ifyoutickleus/status/1859247449023340623?t=sp1IDDtUaThXIBGDn-SLdA&s=19